see him there in the middle of the -- that's mark kelly, but he's there as well. there he is in the glasses. shaking hands with mark kelly, lapierre, pretty much against everything on the table, regarding gun control, including those universal background checks, that's been proposed. listen to wayne lapierre's exchange with senator patrick leahy, the chairman of the judiciary committee. >> talking about gun shows. should we have mandatory background checks at gun shows? for sales of weapons? >> if you're a dealer, that's already the law. if you're -- >> that's not my question. please, mr. lapierre, i'm not trying to play games here. but if you could, just answer my question. >> i do not believe the way the law is working now, unfortunately, that it does any good to extend the law to private sales between hobbyists and collectors. >> so you do not support mandatory background checks in all instances at gun shows? >> we do not because the fact is the law now is a failure the way it is working. >> joe johns, let me bring you in here for me in washington. we have been